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Post by Branjita on Jan 16, 2015 10:24:05 GMT -6
Not that it really makes any difference to us, but the voting on Scultures 5 at an event in Hokkaido Purabo Sapporo has finished, and these are the results:
· Goku & Bardock
27700 points
Cell & ultra-Vegeta
6800 points
· Raditz & Nappa
5700 points
The voting really doesn't make any difference to us as collectors, because the figures are still being produced even if they don't get a lot of votes. It just shows what Japanese collectors think is best.
I believe all of the voting ends on 1/31/15.
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darksenshi
Rank: Ginyu Force
My darkness ki is rising!
Posts: 571
Species: Saiyan
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Post by darksenshi on Jan 16, 2015 17:02:22 GMT -6
I can't wait to get my hands on Goku and Bardock. They look the best out of the bunch imo. I'm gonna pass on everyone but those 2.
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Post by Ketchup on Jan 17, 2015 19:07:11 GMT -6
I can't wait to get my hands on Goku and Bardock. They look the best out of the bunch imo. I'm gonna pass on everyone but those 2. I think I might get the Vegeta as well. The likeness is impeccable, and I don't have any Vegetas in my collection, and Super Vegeta is my favorite form of Vegeta's. I might pass on the Bardock. I'm kinda picky and have an issue with collecting non-canon characters; even though this Bardock is by far the best one to come out. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 19:11:25 GMT -6
I can't wait to get my hands on Goku and Bardock. They look the best out of the bunch imo. I'm gonna pass on everyone but those 2. I think I might get the Vegeta as well. The likeness is impeccable, and I don't have any Vegetas in my collection, and Super Vegeta is my favorite form of Vegeta's. I might pass on the Bardock. I'm kinda picky and have an issue with collecting non-canon characters; even though this Bardock is by far the best one to come out. Did you just called Bardock 'non-canon'?  |
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Post by Ketchup on Jan 17, 2015 20:17:07 GMT -6
I think I might get the Vegeta as well. The likeness is impeccable, and I don't have any Vegetas in my collection, and Super Vegeta is my favorite form of Vegeta's. I might pass on the Bardock. I'm kinda picky and have an issue with collecting non-canon characters; even though this Bardock is by far the best one to come out. Did you just called Bardock 'non-canon'? He is non-canon. Even though he was in the manga for 2 panels, he appeared in the manga WELL after the movie special came out. The movie was released on October 4, 1990, and the manga chapter that featured him was released on June 10, 1991. The fact that the movie came out first trumps his canonicity, as Toei wrote the script for Bardock, Father Of Goku. I'll agree to meet you half-way and say that he's semi-canon. Toriyama did design the character, and he did appear in the manga, even if it was only in a brief flashback. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 20:42:29 GMT -6
Did you just called Bardock 'non-canon'? He is non-canon. Even though he was in the manga for 2 panels, he appeared in the manga WELL after the movie special came out. The movie was released on October 4, 1990, and the manga chapter that featured him was released on June 10, 1991. The fact that the movie came out first trumps his canonicity, as Toei wrote the script for Bardock, Father Of Goku. I'll agree to meet you half-way and say that he's semi-canon. Toriyama did design the character, and he did appear in the manga, even if it was only in a brief flashback. Ketchup Revenge for once the TV specials are canon to the anime. In addition this character appeared in the original manga and in the anime in a flash back in the the Frieza saga. You can't say he is not canon to the story since he is completely part of the story. Even the link with baby Goku coming to earth go through the story Bardock, so you can't dismiss him from the story like for example Turles or Dr. Wheelo. Bardock The Father of Goku special in is entirety is a direct link connecting between DB to DBZ and tie that knot and a missing part from the anime story perfectly. (much like the Trunks special, a missing part in the anime story retold in a special). |
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Post by Ketchup on Jan 17, 2015 20:57:20 GMT -6
He is non-canon. Even though he was in the manga for 2 panels, he appeared in the manga WELL after the movie special came out. The movie was released on October 4, 1990, and the manga chapter that featured him was released on June 10, 1991. The fact that the movie came out first trumps his canonicity, as Toei wrote the script for Bardock, Father Of Goku. I'll agree to meet you half-way and say that he's semi-canon. Toriyama did design the character, and he did appear in the manga, even if it was only in a brief flashback. Ketchup Revenge for once the TV specials are canon to the anime. In addition this character appeared in the original manga and in the anime in a flash back in the the Frieza saga. You can't say he is not canon to the story since he is completely part of the story. Even the link with baby Goku coming to earth go through the story Bardock, so you can't dismiss him from the story like for example Turles or Dr. Wheelo. Bardock The Father of Goku special in is entirety is a direct link connecting between DB to DBZ and tie that knot and a missing part from the anime story perfectly. (much like the Trunks special, a missing part in the anime story retold in a special). Canon according to hardcore fans of the series is anything written by Toriyama, or anything that was introduced in the manga first. The story of Bardock was not written by Toriyama, making him (according to most fans) non-canon, even if his story fits with the series. And with Trunks, there was a special chapter published prior to the release of the movie. The only major difference between the manga and movie is that Trunks was a Super Saiyan in the chapter when Gohan was still alive, but he reached it upon Gohan's death in the movie. So the movie, by all intensive purposes, is semi-canon. It's not exact, but it's mostly true to that special chapter. There's also no way that Dr. Wheelo and Turles can be canon considering that those movies don't fit with the timeline in the manga or even the anime. Certain characters are alive when they're supposed to be dead, or vice versa; or the power scaling is all off. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 21:47:55 GMT -6
Ketchup Revenge for once the TV specials are canon to the anime. In addition this character appeared in the original manga and in the anime in a flash back in the the Frieza saga. You can't say he is not canon to the story since he is completely part of the story. Even the link with baby Goku coming to earth go through the story Bardock, so you can't dismiss him from the story like for example Turles or Dr. Wheelo. Bardock The Father of Goku special in is entirety is a direct link connecting between DB to DBZ and tie that knot and a missing part from the anime story perfectly. (much like the Trunks special, a missing part in the anime story retold in a special). Canon according to hardcore fans of the series is anything written by Toriyama, or anything that was introduced in the manga first. The story of Bardock was not written by Toriyama, making him (according to most fans) non-canon, even if his story fits with the series. And with Trunks, there was a special chapter published prior to the release of the movie. The only major difference between the manga and movie is that Trunks was a Super Saiyan in the chapter when Gohan was still alive, but he reached it upon Gohan's death in the movie. So the movie, by all intensive purposes, is semi-canon. It's not exact, but it's mostly true to that special chapter. There's also no way that Dr. Wheelo and Turles can be canon considering that those movies don't fit with the timeline in the manga or even the anime. Certain characters are alive when they're supposed to be dead, or vice versa; or the power scaling is all off. You are referring as the story not being canon, the character itself was in question, and it cannot be dismissed from the main story. Toriyama did attend and gave his creative input to the production of the movies specials so he was part of them. And the specials are canon to the anime - Introduced in the manga first = canon? What is that even have to do with anything. Dragon Ball have been an ongoing story in the making from 1984 till today. The character made his appearance in the manga by Toriyama and in the anime - and his complete story was told in the TV special. Bardock is undeniably a part of the Dragon Ball story. Both the connection to baby Goku coming to earth which is a main landmark in the story, and the fact that he made an appearance in the manga\anime(a scene directly adapted from the special) making Bardock an unbreakable part of the story. Which unlike Turles, Lord Slug etc which do not fit the manga\anime story, Bardock role hes inseparable from the story. |
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Post by Ketchup on Jan 18, 2015 8:59:57 GMT -6
Canon according to hardcore fans of the series is anything written by Toriyama, or anything that was introduced in the manga first. The story of Bardock was not written by Toriyama, making him (according to most fans) non-canon, even if his story fits with the series. And with Trunks, there was a special chapter published prior to the release of the movie. The only major difference between the manga and movie is that Trunks was a Super Saiyan in the chapter when Gohan was still alive, but he reached it upon Gohan's death in the movie. So the movie, by all intensive purposes, is semi-canon. It's not exact, but it's mostly true to that special chapter. There's also no way that Dr. Wheelo and Turles can be canon considering that those movies don't fit with the timeline in the manga or even the anime. Certain characters are alive when they're supposed to be dead, or vice versa; or the power scaling is all off. You are referring as the story not being canon, the character itself was in question, and it cannot be dismissed from the main story. Toriyama did attend and gave his creative input to the production of the movies specials so he was part of them. And the specials are canon to the anime - Introduced in the manga first = canon? What is that even have to do with anything. Dragon Ball have been an ongoing story in the making from 1984 till today. The character made his appearance in the manga by Toriyama and in the anime - and his complete story was told in the TV special. Bardock is undeniably a part of the Dragon Ball story. Both the connection to baby Goku coming to earth which is a main landmark in the story, and the fact that he made an appearance in the manga\anime(a scene directly adapted from the special) making Bardock an unbreakable part of the story. Which unlike Turles, Lord Slug etc which do not fit the manga\anime story, Bardock role hes inseparable from the story. Of course Bardock can't be dismissed from the main story. Goku had to have had a father, no? Toriyama added Bardock the manga because he liked the movie, even though he did design the character for the movie. But if you actually read that part of the manga that he appears, his role is fleeting and nearly irrelevant. Freeza simply mentions that Goku looked like "The Saiyan who resisted to the very end". That tidbit of information really doesn't play a major part in the story. And we also need to consider the Bardock story which introduces Goku's mom Gine, because that one has Goku leaving Planet Vegeta at age 3, not as an infant like the movie suggests. |
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Post by Ketchup on Jan 18, 2015 9:47:45 GMT -6
Canon according to hardcore fans of the series is anything written by Toriyama, or anything that was introduced in the manga first. The story of Bardock was not written by Toriyama, making him (according to most fans) non-canon, even if his story fits with the series. And with Trunks, there was a special chapter published prior to the release of the movie. The only major difference between the manga and movie is that Trunks was a Super Saiyan in the chapter when Gohan was still alive, but he reached it upon Gohan's death in the movie. So the movie, by all intensive purposes, is semi-canon. It's not exact, but it's mostly true to that special chapter. There's also no way that Dr. Wheelo and Turles can be canon considering that those movies don't fit with the timeline in the manga or even the anime. Certain characters are alive when they're supposed to be dead, or vice versa; or the power scaling is all off. You are referring as the story not being canon, the character itself was in question, and it cannot be dismissed from the main story. Toriyama did attend and gave his creative input to the production of the movies specials so he was part of them. And the specials are canon to the anime - Introduced in the manga first = canon? What is that even have to do with anything. Dragon Ball have been an ongoing story in the making from 1984 till today. The character made his appearance in the manga by Toriyama and in the anime - and his complete story was told in the TV special. Bardock is undeniably a part of the Dragon Ball story. Both the connection to baby Goku coming to earth which is a main landmark in the story, and the fact that he made an appearance in the manga\anime(a scene directly adapted from the special) making Bardock an unbreakable part of the story. Which unlike Turles, Lord Slug etc which do not fit the manga\anime story, Bardock role hes inseparable from the story. I think we have two entirely different perspectives on what true Dragon Ball canon is, and you're not understanding what "canon" means in the context of Dragon Ball. Canon when talked about in Dragon Ball is any plots, stories, or events that are entirely written or invented by Toriyama that does not contradict the manga. The anime special that features Bardock was written by Toei, not Toriyama. And of course Badock or a male Saiyan needs to be included in the main story. Goku needs a biological father, does he not? I will consider Bardock semi-canon, considering that Toriyama did design the character when they made the movie. However, to say the character himself is "canon" when talking about "canon" in the context of Dragon Ball, would be inaccurate. The two panels in the the manga really don't give us any information about him, and is really irrelevant outside that moment. The only thing that Freeza makes note of is that Goku looked like "that Saiyan who resisted to the end." Nothing more is stated about him, and his story in the movie is not relevant to the events of Goku's life, manga or anime. Goku would've been sent away to planet Earth regardless, and still never known who Bardock was. The only other clue that we're given in the manga is when Raditz states that Goku "looks like (their) father". You also need to consider Dragon Ball Minus, which is an alternative story to Bardock, Father of Goku. Bardock is seen to fall in love with Gine, and Goku is sent off from Planet Vegeta when he's 3, not when he was an infant like the Bardock special suggests. Freeza makes mention on Namek that he'd destroyed Planet Vegeta about 30 years before. Goku was 25-26 at this the time he mentions this. So, even if the movie fits better, it wasn't written by Toriyama. Toriyama wrote Dragon Ball Minus, but it doesn't fit with the manga that we know. Therefore, both accounts should be considered non-canon. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 11:17:20 GMT -6
Dragon Ball have never received any official definition of what is a true canon line of events. It is not relevant who the author is along that it's an official entry to the franchise.
Furthermore, the fact that Bardock appear in the original story, in a secne taken directly taken from the special, make this charther an official part of the main story arc and cannot be dimissed.
The fact that Goku need a biological father - It does not mean that the character even had to be mentioned.
Toriyama actually designed most, if not all of the movie characters as well, so your "semi-canon" definition is not even relevant to anything.
The anime specials are canon to the story and the scene where Bardock make his debut in the anime\manga was obviously added to tie the special to the story.
A scene directly adapted from the special to make an appearance of the character into the main story arc. The Bardock story is part of the Dragon Ball story events.
Dragon Ball Minus illustrated by Toriyama, published 15 years after the original story, is only given as an alternative scenario, in this context the original Bardock special triumph Dragon Ball Minus as the true chain of events - an appearance in the manga, as well that Dragon Ball Minus contradict the original Dragon Ball story entirely, it is an alternate story published 15 years after the original story and that all it is.
Sorry but calling Bardock "non-canon character" is just simply plain wrong.
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Post by Bardoon on Jan 18, 2015 15:46:39 GMT -6
Never heard of "it has to show up in the manga first to be canon" reasoning before...that's odd. I figure as long as it shows up in the original source material, it's canon. Even if Bardock was introduced in the anime special before he showed up in panels BY Toriyama, it shouldn't really matter because he's in the source material (the manga). It's not abnormal for movie/manga/anime/comic creators to adapt characters, plots, names, etc. from other sources that are "linked" to their creation. Star Wars has its famous "Expanded Universe" and even Lucas has pulled stuff from it and thrown it in his movies. For example, George Lucas pulled the name for the capital city planet (Coruscant) in the Star Wars universe from the 1991 Star Wars novel "Heir to the Empire" and he used it in the prequels. The Twi'lek Jedi (Aayla Secura) showed up FIRST in the Star Wars comics before she was pulled into the prequel movies (Lucas liked the character). Canonicity often becomes a hot topic of debates because fans have different perspectives, especially when other stories are told in different types of media (comics, novels, animated shows, TV specials, spin-off films, etc.). Star Wars recently had to go through some official statements by Disney to address the large amount of extra "Expanded Universe" material that was created after "Return of the Jedi" and even in-between all the movies. There's some interesting perspectives here in this wiki articles: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_expanded_universeMight help with how to view Dragon Ball's canon as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:36:40 GMT -6
The release dates for the Scultures 5! SSJ Goku and Bardock: July Raditz and Nappa: August Cell 2nd form and SSJ Vegeta: September  |
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Post by serenitydarko on Feb 4, 2015 18:42:10 GMT -6
My favorites are first <3
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:46:29 GMT -6
For me also the first two! The other 4 are just smaller, but it will nevertheless take. In worst case they would fit well with the DXF.  |
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