Post by Majin Tomato on Mar 2, 2017 8:11:17 GMT -6
So I've been meaning to make a thread on this for a bit, but one of the things I struggle with in my personal collection is finding what I consider the "Definitive" versions of each Dragonball character. I know a lot of people here prefer the "GET ALL THE THINGS" approach, but with Figuarts being my collection of choice (*sigh*) I'd rather focus on getting ONE definitive Goku, ONE definitive Vegeta, and ONE definitive Gohan, etc. so I can get to other characters.
The question then becomes though... what version? Goku is simple enough, since most of his outfit changes are minor and have to do with whatever master he's training under. I prefer the Buu Saga version (which still homages his roots with Roshi's colors, but the lack of kanji is a subtle hint that this is a warrior who has transcended any master. Yeah, the "Go" Kanji does that too, but I never liked him putting his own name on his fighting gi) but it gets harder with characters like Gohan and Vegeta, who have had multiple different outfits and styles over the years.
I'm on my way out the door for work, but does anyone have any particular favorites? And don't limit them to the Saiyans, feel free to list whatever oddball DBZ outfits you like most.
Post by Majin Tomato on Mar 3, 2017 21:39:34 GMT -6
Ok, finally getting back to this at a time where I don't have to rush to work... and I want to talk about a character I've always struggled to nail down, Vegeta. He's one of my favorite characters in the franchise, I love the character development he gets throughout the series and into Super, and he's had a TON of awesome outfits over the years, making it really hard to nail down exactly one outfit that I feel is "better" than the rest. Frankly, I jump back and forth between three of his designs depending on my mood. In chronological order, they are:
Early Namek Saga Armor
This is the one I'm most consistent about, and the one I tend to gravitate to most out of all his uniforms. I think it's because this design, coming right on the heels of Vegeta's defeat in the Saiyan saga, evokes that original outfit... but also ditches a lot of design elements that made that first outfit just a bit too busy for my liking. This just feels like a great middle ground between his original outfit, and outfits that would define the character later.
Cell Saga/Dragonball Super Vegeta:
It's hard to argue that this is the most iconic outfit Vegeta's had over the years, especially when it, rather than his Buu saga outfit, was the outfit featured in Battle of Gods. However, while BoG and later Super has been giving me a greater appreciation for the outfit lately, I have a few problems with it. Firstly, I don't really care for the shoulder straps on the armor... I dunno what it is, but something about the gold sitting right on the blue just feels off to me, like they're overall straps or something. I'd have been happier with them being closer to his Resurrection F armor with the white borders.
Also, and this is admittedly me being kinda silly, because this is also the same outfit Goku, Gohan, and Trunks wore during their training for the fight with Cell, there's a part of me that feels like it's not an outfit specific TO Vegeta, for some reason. Towards the end of the Cell saga, it ceased to be a Vegeta armor so much as that onesie all the hip Saiyans are wearing this week. Thankfully, Battle of Gods and later Super did a lot to wash those feelings away and make this feel like a uniquely Vegeta outfit again, but there was a period where all the super saiyans were wearing this outfit and I saw several fans overdo that a bit.
Buu Saga Vegeta
So other than the Namek armor, this outfit used to be one of my top choices for Vegeta's number 1 outfit... though I do feel like that's waned a bit in recent years. I think the primary reason I like it is because even though it's the most stripped down and plain of all Vegeta's outfits, it's also the outfit Vegeta is wearing at the end of the series. I've made no secret that I tend to lean towards the Buu saga for most of my outfit choices, and Vegeta is a prime example of why: before Super came around, this was the last real outfit we saw Vegeta wearing. This is the outfit he was wearing when he sacrificed his life to (try to) take responsibility for his mistakes. This is the outfit he wore when he and Goku fused. And this is the outfit he was wearing when he finally came to terms with Goku being the stronger fighter at the end of Z.
That being said, I'm not that fond of the outfit itself. It's a stripped down outfit he wears purely for the Budokai, sacrificing the armored elements that may not have been allowed due to tournament rules. BoG puts him right back in his armor from the cell games, and it does seem like given the choice, that is what he'd want to wear into a fight.
Post by sc4recrow1687 on Mar 3, 2017 22:19:16 GMT -6
Well I'd say in terms of the most Iconic outfits for each character, Piccolo's would definitely be the easiest to determine lol. Vegeta's is definitely his Cell/BoG/DBS armor, he wears that on the majority of his merchandise and game art. The same goes for Goku's Android/Cell/Buu Saga outfit. My favorite Vegeta outfit is his Frieza saga armor, his Cell saga armor is literally just a busier, brighter version of this armor. I also really like his Buu Saga outfit, mainly because of Majin Vegeta though.
Goku: "Look Vegeta. People popcorn!" Vegeta: "ahh what is he on?"
Post by doomprevails88 on Mar 4, 2017 8:14:07 GMT -6
For Vegeta, I prefer the battle armor that Bulma made him. I really liked the darker color it had in Resurrection F outfit, but not the weird stuff its doing around his waste. I know its kinda silly but i feel like Vegeta has very low self esteem and his outfit choices may be tied to that. its always bugged me that his dads been dead for years and he still calls himself the prince LOL. when goku was dead and he was hands down the most powerful man on the planet. He ditched the armor. Perhaps he sees the battle armor as nostalgic to his saiyan warrior/space pirate days. who knows. Not sure if its true but i heard Toriyama didn't write that season 7 world tournament saga where Vegeta dons the spandex sans armor. perhaps these images will help you with your decisions.
Post by Majin Tomato on Mar 4, 2017 8:43:25 GMT -6
I think that, again, the reason Vegeta wears the armor is that it's just what he's most comfortable fighting in. He's worn Freeza battle armor for most of his life, and there is an advantage to wearing it, if a negligible one by the time we get to the Cell saga. If he's wearing anything else (in both the Buu saga and the end of Z), it's probably because he was entering the tournament. We know Gohan wasn't allowed to wear the stupid helmet because of tournament rules, so I don't think it's unreasonable that Vegeta wouldn't be allowed to wear what's clearly an armored breastplate.
I don't want to list my thoughts on anyone else right now (yay saturday shift!), but I will say that while those images are very helpful, the Gohan one actually skips over the outfit I like on him the most. He's another character that's had a ridiculous wealth of designs, and one that I want to go into more depth when I have more time.
P.S. For the record, Toriyama absolutely did write that portion of the manga. Attempts to say otherwise are fans trying to reconcile how bizarrely paced the Buu saga is compared to previous arcs and how it couldn't POSSIBLY be Toriyama's fault... but it absolutely is. The Buu saga happened because A. Toriyama was flat out burned out on the entire series (he'd been famously trying to end the series since before the Saiyan Saga, even having them name that portion of the Anime "Z" to signify "this is the end") and B. Toriyama's editor at the time basically let Toriyama do whatever he wanted. Without anyone there to give him focus, the Buu saga became a kind of meandering mess of an arc. Don't get me wrong, it's a GOOD mess, with many enjoyable moments, but it's still very disjointed and falls short compared to other arcs in the series.
Post by Majin Tomato on Mar 4, 2017 15:57:18 GMT -6
So, Gohan. I'm not gonna lie, this one required me to do a lot of soul searching to find the design I liked most for the character. Part of the problem I had was that I wanted to have a "adult" version of Gohan (much of my collection is/will be from the Buu saga, and having a Goten with Kid Gohan would just seem wrong), but one that was representative of the character of Gohan.
Before I go further, I'm going to admit straight up that were it not for me being predisposed to an adult Gohan, easily the most iconic version of the character is from the Cell saga. It has him in Piccolo's colors (colors that Gohan favors throughout the Saiyan->Cell portion of Z) his haircut is simple and reminiscent of Goku's without being a carbon copy, and it's easily Gohan's most epic moment in the entire series.
That being said, since I was sticking to a Buu saga Z->Super for Gohan designs, there were still quite a few to go through (seriously, Gohan's like, the ONLY character to change outfits in the Buu saga other than Buu himself).
This would probably be the easiest for me to do, since it actually HAS a Figuarts figure already, but... I'm sorry, but I HATE this look for Gohan. It's a carbon copy of Goku's Gi, the way Gohan is drawn in it just doesn't even match the Gohan we'd been following throughout the Buu saga ("He got stronger" does not explain how his face aged 5-10 years) and it all just makes him look like Goku with a different haircut.
Don't get me wrong, I like Gohan being a badass as much as the next DBZ fan. But the Gohan shown here is NOT the same person who not too long before had been playing superhero and had a hard time talking to girls. People give Super a hard time for taking so long to bring Gohan back into the action and didn't leave him with the powerup he had during the Buu saga, but I will credit them that at least that progression was EARNED, and that the Gohan we see fighting in the Multiverse tournament feels like the same person. Ultimate Gohan just... doesn't. He goes from the dorky, well meaning kid that wanted to play superhero, to this arrogant jock that puts way too much stock in his own power in a day.
Combine that with, again, a clone copy of Goku's gi... and it's a design that has a lot of negative character baggage and colors that just don't pop on a figure shelf surrounded by Goku, Krillin, Goten, and Yamcha.
This is probably the one that I put the most stock into early in my musings, but ultimately I just don't care for it. I couldn't exactly tell you why either... the color palette is fine, and it's a design that is unique to Gohan (something that isn't the case for many of his previous outfits). I think it's biggest flaw is just that we don't see it too much outside of his training for the Budokai... he doesn't wear it for any notable fight scenes, we don't see him in it for much of the series, and there's not much about it that leaves much of an impact.
Resurrection F tracksuit
Hrm. So... Resurrection F. I'm not going to mince words, I WANTED to like a lot of the new costumes they tried to introduce in Resurrection F, and there was a period where I did consider switching over to them (since until Super got to the Universe 6 tournament I thought it might have been the new status quo going forward) but I really dislike all the new outfits developed for that movie. Goku's design isn't balanced properly with the colors, and I hate the gray used for Vegeta's bodysuit. That being said though, there was SOMETHING about Gohan's design that I liked. And for the longest time, that fact nagged at me... the design itself was probably the dumbest of the entire film, with the whole "derp, I forgot my gi" explanation being perhaps the lamest part. But again, there was SOMETHING about the outfit that I really liked about it, something that just said "Yeah, this is Gohan"
It wasn't until I was discussing the design with a friend of mine that the simplicity of it finally hit me: I liked him in the green. The green outfit evoked his connection with Piccolo, but wasn't blatant about it like the many times he was wearing Piccolo's colors. It's also a color you didn't really see much in any other character in the franchise. If only there was an outfit that utilized the green, but wasn't a stupid tracksuit... Oh, right, there is.
Great Saiyaman Gi
So I just talked about why I like the green color palette for Gohan, but I wanted to talk for a bit about why, even ignoring the color scheme, I still personally like this outfit most out of any of his outfits. To me, Great Saiyaman is Gohan at his most fundamental: Gohan was not, i not, and has never been a fighter because he liked fighting. Gohan became a fighter because, in the end, he was trying to save the people around him. So seeing him grow up and want to become a superhero... that makes a lot of sense for the character. Great Saiyaman is both an expression of all the powers that he's been hiding since the Cell games, but also Gohan at his most nerdy, with stupid poses and a silly voice.
Really, that's the fundamental difference between Goku and Gohan... Goku just wants to win and better himself, even if that means multiple universes getting blown up. Because of that, he's really only a hero in that he will happen to save the day if it means getting a good fight out of the experience. Gohan, however, actually IS a hero... it's just that because he is a good person, he won't ignore every other aspect of his life the same way Goku will. And personally, I feel that there's no greater expression of Gohan's character than this outfit.
Post by Majin Tomato on Mar 6, 2017 17:43:41 GMT -6
So for today I'll break away from the Saiyans a bit to talk about the perpetual low man on the totem pole, Yamcha. Just gonna use the pic doomprevails88 already posted for reference, since this one won't be nearly as in depth as previous ones have.
So for Yamcha, like with Goku, it's pretty easy to nail his primary outfit down to the Turtle Hermit Gi. Sure, you can make the case for his original outfit (which I do like) but Yamcha wears Turtle Hermit orange for most of Dragonball and Z. Really, the main difficulty with Yamcha specifically is just hair style... and while the figure we're ending up with (on the figuarts end, anyway) is the Cell saga spiked up look, I much prefer his hairstyle in the Saiyan/Namek arcs. And while I'm honest enough to admit part of that is because "the pose" is one of the most memorable Yamcha memes, it's also because that's the style he wears in his original appearance and in Super as well.
Picking one outfit is a neat premise and saves a lot of money but I'm not fond of limiting characters to one "true" outfit as it feels like limiting them to just one stage of their life. It feels weird. I have my favorites for who I collect but I try to include all outfits to get a complete sense of who that character was, the stuff they did and what they grew into. Sans Super, RoF,...BoG...okay anything past GT of course for various reasons that I will never argue about so don't even bother.
So the only outfit I hate and wish I could avoid is Kid Trunks' green dougi. Its just so damn bland and symbolizes nothing except maybe him wanting a gi like Goten has. Bulma making something akin to Vegeta's armor would've made more sense here but of course we can't have that. I wouldn't be bothered by it if we had more time with kid Trunksin Zto see him more fleshed out but we don't so we're stuck with a meh outfit for nearly every figure of him. Sure its easy to cosplay but god it's more boring than Piccolo's outfit which only gets a pass for consistency and uniqueness with the cape/turban(?).
I'm only into Dragon Ball for the plot, the shirtless musclebound plot.
Sort of off topic of your thread, but I have always loved the weird alternative outfits that exist. Especially the casual clothes, like Piccolo and Goku's driving clothes, Vegeta's BADMAN shirt, and Yamcha's yellow suit lol. I wish someone made a line of statues like the Banpresto TFC set, but of all the alternate outfits.
I agree with your assessment of Gohan. But, I still really like the purple gi, especially when it looks more blue-ish.
What would you pick for Tien? I would probably go with shirtless/green pants, cause I think he wears it the longest of any outfit. But, a lot of people seem to prefer the green half-gi.
On instagram - @waveactionfigures. Just figuarts poses!
Post by Majin Tomato on Apr 2, 2017 18:22:47 GMT -6
I prefer the half Gi as well, but that's primarily because it's an outfit that's... well, unique. We see the tank top with Vegeta (and I personally hate that look for him because the color balance is off), and the caped loner look might as well be Piccolo's business card. And as much as I do agree with shirtless Tien being a staple, EVERYONE seems to end of shirtless in Z. Don't get me wrong, I also like the Chinese outfit in Super for being unique as well (it also feels very Tien) but the Cell saga half gi is an iconic outfit that no one else really has in the series.
But then, I also have a bias because the point where Tien is Kikoho-ing Cell, knowing that all he's doing is buying time, knowing he's outmatched... it's probably the single most badass moment from any of the side characters in all of Z, and so I always think of him in that moment when I see that outfit.
Although not worn for long, this is my favorite tien outfit.
looking for these figs, any cheap leads please lmk! Unifive posing cyborg tao & chiaotzu (color ver)--Hachette great saiyaman--Legend of saiyan sets 1 & 5--Banpresto Figure-in-pack janemba Keychain----- goku w/ nimbus, & king vegeta Banpresto keychains--TTF Green Shenron & Vegeta Oozaru--unifive kubrick style goku in shu outfit w/ fortuneteller baba[br]
Post by Majin Tomato on Apr 9, 2017 8:09:48 GMT -6
So we're gonna tackle a character with a rather wide range of outfits and appearances to choose from, the second Super Saiyan of the entire season... Future/Mirai Trunks*. Because of the sheer wealth of different designs and variations Trunks has had in such a short time, I'm going to focus mostly on what I consider the 4 most popular, though I will also briefly give my thoughts on some of the variations of each outfit in their respective sections.
The Mysterious Youth
Regardless of how I or others feel about the other designs personally, I think we can all agree that this is probably the most definitive version of the character. From his introduction where he just ANNIHILATES Freeza and King Cold as the second Super Saiyan in the series, Trunks quickly establishes himself as one of DBZ's heavy hitters for that section of the series. His outfit, featuring his iconic jacket and sword, is plenty original compared to other characters in the series, and is one of my favorite designs to this day.
Being arguably the most iconic outfit the character's worn, this is also the one with the most minor variations. I don't care for the jacketless versions (though they're mostly just for fight scenes) nor the versions that just feature the long hair, but I will admit that I do somewhat like the long hair/sleeveless jacket version we see in Movie 9. Still, I feel like this is still THE most iconic version of this look.
Bulma's Armor AKA "LOVE ME DADDY"
I really don't care for this look, even though I know a lot of people have a soft spot for it. I touched a little bit on why in the Vegeta discussion, but I really disliked how Vegeta's iconic outfit just kinda became standard Saiyan uniform no. 3. It lessened it's uniqueness for Vegeta, and it made everyone else less visually interesting. Still, of everyone who donned the outfit during that period, Trunks made the most sense and wore it the best. I joked about his daddy issues in the title, but at this point in the series, Trunks was desperate for Vegeta's acknowledgement, to the point that he (sort of) risked the entire world just to maintain Vegeta's ego (though frankly, as we later saw, Vegeta would likely have just mocked him for being an idiot). Him abandoning this outfit again at the end before going back to the future is symbolic of him putting that need behind him and setting him on the path to be Earth's hero. So, yeah, good as a one off, but I'm glad it got dropped.
Regarding variants, eh. The only one of note is the version where he gets a haircut before going back into the chamber again, but I'm not fond of it at all tbh. If you're going to have this uniform, you should have it with the long hair.
While this outfit is a bit odd from a design standpoint, from a narrative standpoint I have a bit of a soft spot for it. Unlike Super's version of Mirai Trunks, who goes pretty much straight from the Android threat to more and more calamity (getting Supreme Kai killed fighting Dabura and then following up with Goku Black) this rendition of Trunks saves his timeline, and then is recruited to lead a team of warriors to preserve the timeline. It's a much happier timeline, for lack of a better word, then we would later get in Super, and I personally like it. Becoming a guardian of time just fits the arc the character underwent throughout the android/cell saga. In my mind, THIS is the Trunks we saw throughout Z, with Super's version being an alternate version.
Though, to be fair, a part of that might also be Super's design...
Dragon Ball Blue... I mean Super
Let's get this out of the way: I HATE THE BLUE HAIR WITH A FIREY PASSION. I'm not going to go into the whole "Well, Toriyama always intended" debate here, partly because I don't care, but also because it's utter nonsense. If you're going to change it, CHANGE IT. Don't leave Kid Trunks with the purple hair and have him in the same frame as this design. Or, if you want to go the "it changed as he got older" route, DON'T SHOW FLASHBACKS WITH HIM HAVING BLUE HAIR THERE TOO.
Nerd rage about stupid and contradictory hair changes aside, this design isn't that bad. It's got shades of the original while still being a bit more war torn, which fits with Trunks' ongoing struggle against Goku Black. If it weren't for the hair, it might even be one of my favorite outfits (I actually use a mod which changes his hair color in Xenoverse).
*Side note, I personally prefer Mirai despite knowing it means the same thing, because "Future" gets confusing when it's not ACTUALLY the future of canon DBZ anymore. I wish we had something like DC's "Earth __" system #endminirant
Let's get this out of the way: I HATE THE BLUE HAIR WITH A FIERY PASSION. I'm not going to go into the whole "Well, Toriyama always intended" debate here, partly because I don't care, but also because it's utter nonsense. If you're going to change it, CHANGE IT. Don't leave Kid Trunks with the purple hair and have him in the same frame as this design. Or, if you want to go the "it changed as he got older" route, DON'T SHOW FLASHBACKS WITH HIM HAVING BLUE HAIR THERE TOO.
Why are we in the minority? I can very clearly remember a time when the entire fanbase would have universally hated the blue hair retcon. Now you have a large amount of people who insist the change was good and that the hair always should have been blue. I mean, I get it. Actively complaining about it is borderline lifeless weeaboo nonsense...regardless, I couldn't stand the change and would have been fine with a simple explanation for the change...and Toei actually created a decent one with their (what I now consider terrible) approach to the arc.
With Future Trunks winding up in an exact copy of his world before Zamasu became a factor, it makes a bit of sense for him to have blue hair since it would be a bit difficult to distinguish between two exact copies of Trunks...but even then, you could say the duplicate Trunks should have had blue hair, and he wasn't even seen in the series! such nonsense.
whatever the case...since it's on topic, here's an edit I made sometime last year to see what Trunks would look like with the color palettes swapped around.
As for the iconic outfit...I'll also say the jacket/tanktop combo is the clear choice. I can't argue for it but I've developed a certain fondness for the Time Patroller outfit. Part of me hopes there will be some sort of Xenoverse arc featured in Super.
Last Edit: Apr 10, 2017 14:35:02 GMT -6 by timone317
Post by Majin Tomato on Apr 10, 2017 20:45:20 GMT -6
My biggest problem with that argument is, as I stated: If you're going to take that route, GO FOR IT. I'd be ok if they actually went 100% all in and changed the hair across the board. BUT THEY DIDN'T. Kid Trunks' hair is still purple. TP Trunks' hair is still purple (including the long haired design in the latest update of Dragon Ball Heroes). All the non-super toys and merch coming out is still purple. There's even flashbacks in Super where they clearly used the original footage with purple hair, which they put a color filter over but you can still tell it's purple.
And much as people might say otherwise, there's not even a good reason for it: Toriyama submitted the design, and rather than color correcting it like they have with EVERY TRUNKS AND BULMA DESIGN EVER, they just didn't bother this time. So it's not like there was this big corporate decision to change the hair color to match Toriyama's vision (if they gave a carp about that Bulma would have had purple hair years ago) they were just lazy. And it's frustrating and there is a part of me that seriously wants to download and make a "purple hair Trunks" edit to the entire Goku Black arc because it is so frustrating. And if I did not already work full time, I seriously would.